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Talk:T. Thomas
Appearance Why have I not seen him before?! That's crazy! A C E(CONT•WALL) 06:24, December 7, 2013 (UTC) *He appears only in promotional images. His scenes were left on the cutting room floor. Nerdfightergirl (talk) 06:27, December 7, 2013 (UTC) Not canon? Why is he a non-canon character?! Just because his scenes didn't end up in the actual episode, doesn't mean he's not canon in my opinion. The writers wrote scenes with his character and thought about him, proven by the titles and lab coat. It's like saying that the writing of Bokhee is not canon either, even though the writers cleared it up on Twitter. Tooniee (talk) 19:21, December 12, 2013 (UTC) Wikipedia describes canon like this: Fan-fiction would be described as "non-canon," while an event from the official source material would be "canon." I'd say the writers are official sources. Tooniee (talk) 19:24, December 12, 2013 (UTC) Isn't it wiki-rule that deleted scenes and unused scripts are not considered canon? Especially in Dr. Thomas' case when his scenes aren't, as I recall, included in season 4's deleted scenes and/or commentary, the character was essentially removed from the GA-universe. A C E(CONT•WALL) 19:34, December 12, 2013 (UTC) I don't recall that being a rule. Unused scripts is a whole different thing than a deleted scene. Unused scripts means that the ideas in them are indeed removed from the uinverse, but deleted scenes were just deleted because otherwise the episode would be too long. To take the season 6 finale as an example: originally, Shonda wrote that Bailey got shot, but this idea was not used, and thereby it's not canon because she simply didn't get shot. Lexie getting thrown out of the ambulance in the deleted scene is a different, as it was only cut because otherwise the episode would be 5 minutes longer than it's allowed to be. Another exmaple is the Calzona scene in Do You Believe in Magic. The episode stills show a scene in their bedroom, but it was cut from the episode. Tooniee (talk) 19:40, December 12, 2013 (UTC) But an entire character was removed. Any mention of Dr. Thomas was removed from the episode, and it wasn't included in the deleted scenes or commentary. For me, it means the character is no longer canon. Normally, if an episode runs too long, the DVD release includes those scenes, such as all the extended episodes included on the DVDs. So I don't think it was a matter of the episode running too long, but perhaps, seeing the character was no longer necessary. A C E(CONT•WALL) 19:55, December 12, 2013 (UTC) He may not have been necessary in the episode itself, but that doesn't mean that the character wasn't created by the writers. The promotional stills prove that he was more than just a scraped idea. Official source material prove his existence, so it's canon according to the definition of canon. Tooniee (talk) 20:03, December 12, 2013 (UTC) I'm not disputing that he wasn't created by the writers. The character was cast and footage was shot, but ultimately removed. However, despite this, the character isn't canon because he no longer exists in the Grey's Anatomy official universe. He was completely removed. Any reference of him is gone. He only exists in promotional photos, which means he was never part of the aired broadcast. He isn't mentioned in DVD commentary nor is he included in extended/deleted scenes from season 4. As far as him being a canon character, he does not qualify. A C E(CONT•WALL) 15:25, December 14, 2013 (UTC) But saying he's not a canon character is like saying that we don't know who the Chief of OB/GYN at SGH was. But thanks to the promotional photos, we do know who it is. He's the character that was created for that position by the writers. The promotional photos are official sources, that can't be denied. Not only episodes (whether extended or deleted scenes included or not) provide canon information. Promotional photos and writer commentaries do too, like the spelling of Bokhee's name. Tooniee (talk) 15:54, December 14, 2013 (UTC) But we don't. As far as the official broadcast history goes, the only Chief of OB/GYN was Addison Montgomery. No one else has officially taken that spot, because, it was not part of the broadcast nor was it part of any extended scenes in the season 4 DVD. The first and primary source for anything canon is the TV series (e.g. what's broadcasted). That will always trump any other source. Granted there are some leeways to that as there are some errors on broadcast, but the general rule is what happens on air is what happens in the official universe of Grey's Anatomy. Thomas was removed. He only exists in promotional photos, which is an out-of-universe source. Whether or not it's an official source, it's secondary to the show. In-universe, he doesn't exist, which means, he isn't canon. We include him and acknowledge he existed at one point, per the promotional photos, and we acknowledge that he held the title of Chief of OB/GYN, replacing Addison, but because he was completely removed from the episode, and thereby the universe of Grey's Anatomy and all of Shondaland, he is footnoted as not being a canon character. A C E(CONT•WALL) 19:30, December 14, 2013 (UTC) Of course the TV series trumps secondary sources, but when secondary sources don't contradict the primary source, they're just as correct. Canon means from official sources, and the photos are official, secondary source or not. Created by the writers, who are official sources of the show I'd say, he is a canon character. We know his name, his profession and his post-nominal titles, and what he looks like. I get where you're coming from, I do, but just because he was removed from the episode doesn't mean his whole existence was erased from the show. A deleted scene is different from an unused script, like said before. This is clearly a deleted scene, as it cearly was filmed. I bet not all deleted scenes end up on the DVD, so that's not the issue. We have plenty of information on this wiki that does not come from the broadcast episodes (things established by writers on Twitter e.g.), yet none of that information has ever been described as not being canon. Tooniee (talk) 20:21, December 14, 2013 (UTC) *Canon This lists the official policy of this wiki re: canon. This is in regards to deleted scenes, "they can be used to cull character names and spellings, provided there's no contradiction with any in-universe source." It wouldn't be that great a leap to go from that to promotional images and the information they provide. Also, this might be a good time for us to review all the current policies of the wiki and see if any of them need to be changed or updated. Nerdfightergirl (talk) 20:28, December 14, 2013 (UTC) That's a good idea! Tooniee (talk) 20:30, December 14, 2013 (UTC) *Do you want to go through them and then just create a thread on either my wall or your wall where we can discuss possible changes? Nerdfightergirl (talk) 20:32, December 14, 2013 (UTC) It's different because there was a conscious decision to remove the character entirely from the episode and never refer to him ever again. Yes, his existence has been erased. It does contradict the primary source because the primary source has him not existing. Promotional photos contradict his existence because promotional photos are an OOU source with nothing in-universe to correlate it to. All we have is that photo, and nothing else. But clearly I'm being outvoted as the rules have all of a sudden changed to support this... so whatever. I'm done. A C E(CONT•WALL) 23:25, December 14, 2013 (UTC)